Curse

Phineas · Nov 28, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

it is definately favored toward the kurzick side. a couple good healers on the kurz side is all that is needed to rebuke the unorganized and usually poor attack power of the luxon side. a couple of siege turtles isn't enough to make up for this

It's a team effort, therefore an unorganised group should not win. I've recently been enjoying FA from both points of view, and have been rolled quickly by a good Luxon offensive and struggled to make the Green Gate on several occasions when assaulting. I've also had a lot more close battles than previously, but that may also be due to my playing here more often since the update.

In my experience, Luxons generally have a higher chance of success when they have one or more MMs with a Rit spirit spammer, otherwise it seems that the Luxons are too happy to go in one by one to take on the fort. Not always the case, of course, and I'd like to think that over time the players currently trying FA as a replacement to HFFFing will improve with each hard lesson learnt.

Skyy High · Nov 29, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

It's a team effort, therefore an unorganised group should not win.

How exactly can a group be "organized" when it's 8 random players?

upier · Nov 29, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

In my experience, Luxons generally have a higher chance of success when they have one or more MMs with a Rit spirit spammer, otherwise it seems that the Luxons are too happy to go in one by one to take on the fort.

While I agree that going in one by one is a an issue - losing against a MM or a SS rit just means you played badly. There is nothing about those two builds that would make them strong, let alone overpowered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Oh.. with SoI (at 16 illusion), casting Iron Mist on Luxons outside is hilarious

Especially when they try to reach the Commander to send new turtle squad.

Sup rune?

Pleikki · Nov 29, 2008, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Sup rune?

Minor Ftw ... ....

upier · Nov 29, 2008, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

Minor Ftw ... ....

Hence my shocked face ...

Servant of Kali · Nov 29, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

How exactly can a group be "organized" when it's 8 random players?

Oh please

A random team of 8 good players will be organized because that's what makes them good - ability to organize fast and 'on the fly'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Sup rune?

Exactly. It gives me more damage, more effect and more fun overall. With Survivor insignias it's fine.

Come on, let's face it, it's FA not GvG. In FA, I actually WANT to die sometimes, and I suicide. After I die I rez up few sec away from enemies (if they are inside), with full energy. Don't use it always, but sometimes it's a good tactic.

Also, with water magic hex, Iron Mist and Imagined Burden (for energy, if i dont use above method), my crowd control is excellent and unless I'm stupid I won't die just like that. Basically, I go in - Deep Freeze, nuke spells... I move out. Things die. I live. Yes I will have a bit lower hp, but with the build I use and with the map itself, I did not notice the difference.

(btw I usually use all minor runes as well, SoI is only exception)

I'm open to counterarguments. Is the difference between 14 and 16 worthwile in this case? I've no idea honestly, simply like having things cast at 16 attribute. It's guy thing, kinda

Abedeus · Nov 29, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Exactly. It gives me more damage, more effect and more fun overall. With Survivor insignias it's fine.

You will deal 10 damage more, or with Iron Mist you get 2 seconds more compared to minor rune. And you loose 75 health.

75 health < 2 seconds? Are you insane?

Quote:

random team of 8 good players will be organized because that's what makes them good - ability to organize fast and 'on the fly'.

Random =/= good. Even if all players are good, they are just too random.

8 warriors will easily fell again ONE bonder monk that holds the Gunther. Simply because they would have to somehow remove the bonds and defend against a team that has a monk and damage.

Thank God it's usually random vs random.

Quote:

I'm open to counterarguments. Is the difference between 14 and 16 worthwile in this case? I've no idea honestly, simply like having things cast at 16 attribute. It's guy thing, kinda

Loosing 20% of health IS WORTH IT?

xDusT II · Nov 29, 2008, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Had some success on the Kurzick side running a bonder with dshot then just camping the two sides of NPC's from the top and using longbow range to dshot turtles from a safe height. Not one person tried to stop me or make bonding the NPC's difficult so until people learn I'm just going to keep running that. Really if the Luxons just built properly and made the most out of their turtles it wouldn't be that bad.

The Meth · Nov 29, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Who cares about health as a caster in FA? You respawn in 5 seconds, you have snares, you are casting from maximum range either behind npcs or ontop of the well. Good enemy players aren't going after kurzick players most of the time anyway, they go after npcs. Dieing can actually help you be giving you an energy recharge, much better then standing around for 20 seconds to regen (and that lets you bring a much more energy intensive build, increasing damage again). A single Sup is perfectly reasonable.

HawkofStorms · Nov 29, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Superior runes are fine in FA/RA/AB/etc.
A) They are everywhere so its not like you are harming yourself relative to other players
B) Its not like there is every organized spiking in those areas anyway.
C) If you are knocked down to 75 health during a FA fight, you are probablly going to die anyways, what with the turtles hitting for several hundred damage and the general lack of healers.

You could probablly run around with 2 sup runes in FA and still never be killed if you are running a competient bar (though I wouldn't suggest it).

upier · Nov 29, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

In that case - this thread is completely irrelevant.
When you have people opting for sub-par choices they aren't playing to win. And if they aren't playing to win - why does it matter if the battlefield is balanced?

If the team wants to win - then the sub-par choices (IF they are made) need to be negated. They can be either negated by the actions of other party members or the opposing team. And considering we are here talking about the better players - the ones that actually know what is going on - who's going to negate YOUR mistakes?
YOU are there to negate mistakes of shitty players - not make new ones!

HawkofStorms · Nov 29, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

YEAH! People trying to apply GvG/HA strategies to FA and then calling people failures for not doing so.

upier · Nov 29, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Only the ones that work.

If the point is to go in and NOT do your best - I don't see why shouldn't the others do the same?
And because of that - it doesn't make sense for people to bring ench removal because someone else might do it. It doesn't make sense to not use weapon mastery guys since you might get someone who'll remove all the all the weapon-mastery hate AND open the door for you. It doesn't make sense to bring a fully grown pet - since you can farm some XP there ....
Everyone aboard the failboat!

If we aren't playing our best - how do we know that the map is actually unbalanced? Maybe the Luxons just lose constantly because we're shit?

Servant of Kali · Nov 30, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Upier, I have yet to lose a game on Kurzick side with that Mesmer.

Heck, I've been so bored in many games that I go outside and kill Luxon NPCs, Commanders etc. Is that optimal and doing the best I can? No, it's bordering on noobish. But I never played FA to win monthly trophy for best FA player. I take battles seriously, that's true, but I dont always take "the most optimal build just because..". I PvP in GW because it enables me to pick various and yet still effective builds. Let's take RA for example. I can hardly think of a Mesmer there that's better than old school one, or at least domination one in any case. But sometimes, just sometimes I might make some illusion build and go into the battle. Yes, it will be less effective, but still effective relatively speaking and fun.

But I will take minor rune now.. although, in FA it doesn't really matter much to me. As HawkofStorms said, if turtle hits me im dead. If Luxons go on me outside of fort - im dead, although it takes time because I snare them. So they win battle but lose war. If Luxons go on me inside the fort, why does it matter, I fast-cast nukes, run out of energy, I die, rez in 3 sec with max energy and FC again. It's in the interest of Luxons not to kill me.

Quote:

When you have people opting for sub-par choices they aren't playing to win.

Not quite true. You can still choose to take some sub-par choice like IW and still play to win

I rate Fun over Efficiency when I play games. If I had to choose between #1 guild that always plays the same build, or #300 guild that has fun killing enemy players in 1001 ways, i'd choose the latter.

However, I agree with you that even a sub-par build can be optimized, and should

As in, if someone wants to play IW, there are good IW builds and bad IW builds (although, IW is subpar in itself).

Traveller · Nov 30, 2008, 12:17 PM // 12:17

The sad truth is that Kurzicks can even run subpar stuff if they have a couple of good healers backing them up, whereas Luxons pretty much have to have builds geared towards healer hate and manage to rack up some communication amongsts their random 8 man team (with usually 1 leecher).

I've pretty much given up Aspenwood now, since it's just not fun anymore. Jade quarry borderlines there too with multiple Mo/P's with Make haste and N/A's exploding all over the place, but at least there Luxon can win every now and then.

Nightow · Nov 30, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveller

The sad truth is that Kurzicks can even run subpar stuff if they have a couple of good healers backing them up, whereas Luxons pretty much have to have builds geared towards healer hate and manage to rack up some communication amongsts their random 8 man team (with usually 1 leecher).

I've pretty much given up Aspenwood now, since it's just not fun anymore. Jade quarry borderlines there too with multiple Mo/P's with Make haste and N/A's exploding all over the place, but at least there Luxon can win every now and then.

Yeah, I really don't see how people can say FA is balanced when the kurz can be a bit sub par and yet the luxons have to be on top of their game and pray a hail Mary that they have an optimal setup.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Nov 30, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

i do find it rather hillarious about how people are bitching that its no longer balanced when it never was balanced allthough i do agree that its way to easy for kurzicks to win.

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Nov 30, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

How many Luxon ships have been annihilated by the Vengeance of the Gods?

cthulhu reborn · Nov 30, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Well all I know that as a Kurzick player all the Luxons needed to do is bring a couple of monks to keep the turtles alive as they advance. It's a rare thing that Kurzick players (sad but true) actually grasp the concept of working together to kill the monk(s) and then the turtle. So my advice to you is to play a monk and concentrate on healing the turtle and running arround dodging damage.
Seems to work all too well.

[DE] · Nov 30, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

The only thing wrong with Fort Aspenwood is the necessity of monks. Considering parties are randomly grouped, the chance of having monk(s) on your team is purely based on chance (or the ratio of monks entering to other players). Like RA, having a good monk on your team is usually what makes or breaks your matches. While having random parties is an easy way for people to quickly play FA, I think that having a grouping system like in AB would help to fix this problem. Semi-coordinated FA seems like more fun than the current FA random mix'n'match system.